I will always believe there is a God of all Mankind as mentioned in the Bible.
So heres my Question for you, What if, at some point in the future Extraterrestrials do make contact with Civilization on earth, and say that they are the God mentioned in the Bible?, How do you suppose that would impact Religions Worldwide?. Personally I think it would be devastating, not only to each individual who is religious, but also to countries that are based on Religion. Also, There appears to be evidence that Extraterrestrials were around probably as far back as the Dinosour age, and the Biblical era, so, could there be a connection between God and Aliens? I find it hard to believe that God who see's and knows everything would stand by and allow extraterrestrials to watch from the sidelines.
Whats your thought?
Last Edit: Nov 30, 2010 20:42:32 GMT -5 by briankey
Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 1, 2010 18:07:51 GMT -5
Interesting philosophical questions, and I would like to respond to those. Just wanted to post this, as for a few days, I'm going to be putting in few 16 hour days, possibly, plus some. If anyone else has any ideas or comments . please feel free to chime in here. I'll be back to this one.
Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 6, 2010 11:50:30 GMT -5
Okay, there are about 3 questions wrapped in here. 1. Contact/Impact There would have to be impact to many areas. Contact with an off-world civilization could not help but make an impact. The only comment I would add persoonally it that it would not be the first time that someone has claimed to be a direct messenger of God, or God. I don't think that's a new message, or, within established hierarchy, credible, to the extent of major upheaval. 2. Connection/ God-Aliens. If God created the entire universe, and not just Earth, then there is a connection by definition. God created either everything, or we have to modify that belief that God created everything but certain Aliens and THEIR civilization/worlds). 3. Aliens allowed to watch. Since we believe in free will, the choice between good/evil, etc., why would aliens, exercising free will, not be allowed to watch? or, exercising free will, either make or refuse to make, contact?
Post by Rachael-LA. Spirits on Dec 27, 2010 12:48:23 GMT -5
This may sound silly, but my husband and I have had this discussion and he theorizes that aliens are actually angels descending from the sky and the spaceships are the chariots. Also, if God created everything... heavens and earth, don't ya think he knows about the aliens. If you trust in what the Bible says, there shouldn't be any doubt. Thats where faith comes in. JMO.
Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 27, 2010 16:13:51 GMT -5
Hi, Rachael. From the standpoint of just "pure logic", if God created everything, then all life forms would be part of "everything", and, therefore, God would be aware they exist and the reason(s) of the original creation thereof. And as fr as the"'repeating", that's OK. It makes me think I might actually know something every now and then.
I dont think Angels would need Chariots. The root of all this is for me, Im not doubting the Bible, but when you have proof that aliens visited Earth, all the Cave Drawings showing what appears to be spacecraft, or Aircraft of some sort, then you have things on this world that nobody can explain, tribes from hundreds, even thousands of years ago that knew about a certain star that only till the 20th century was it discovered by Astronomers, then Im asking the question, whats up with all this?. My theory is, that Earth has been used and reused for millions and millions of years, and those civilizations have left behind proof of their existance. Maybe they became so technically advanced that they left the planet for some other star system. Fact is, Leonardo Da Vinci painted UFO's in his pantings, I dont think the Frisbee was invented back then. So, he must have seen UFO's to paint them. For me there is just too many unanswered Questions that the Bible doesnt cover, we have proof somethings been going on here. And Remember, the Bible Was situated in the Middle East, not the rest of the world
Post by Rachael-LA. Spirits on Dec 28, 2010 13:29:09 GMT -5
I believe there is the God who is Author of the Bible, also. I have faith in that. I do not ride the fence on that. I also believe there are beings other than the ones here on earth. I believe they were created by God. I have faith in the Bible. The Bible tells me that all things, heavens and earth were created by God, in the beginning, not after aliens used up what they wanted of the earth then abandoned it. I have seen the armoured car that Da Vinci was designing and it definitely resembles what we would consider to be a UFO and I have seen the painting by Da Vinci... "The Last Supper". Very imaginative and talented man he was, but I don't think he actually observed the Last Supper either. I have seen the painting The Madonna and Saint Giovannino, but that is by Domenico Ghirlandaio, not da Vinci and again, very talented, but so is Andy Warhol and Stephen King. What I'm basically saying is I'm not going to drive myself crazy trying to figure out carbon dating and cave drawings and splotches on painting that I really don't know what they are. I'll just have to go by what I TRULY believe. Now as far as angels and chariots and creation and all that stuff goes, again, I have to go with what I believe....
Ge 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. (That one's kinda self-explanatory)
2 Kings 2:11 11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried out, “My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen!” So he saw him no more (Alien abduction, perhaps?)
I'm not saying you have to believe what is written here, but I am saying that is looks silly to claim to believe and then discredit yourself with everything else that you say. As you said "I'm not doubting the Bible", therefore that leaves me the option of doubting man's "proof".
Well, everybody has a right to believe as they wish, But, evidence around the planet cant be explained, and it all leans towards Alien intervention regardless what the bible says. Da Vinci had an imaginary mind, but its too coincidental he would paint UFO's.
When you have Eygptians who were playing with Batteries and lights, thats aside from the Bible. Theres something going on here that eventually will be explained. We know that dinosaurs roamed the earth, but thats millions of years before man, or the bible, where do they fit in?.. We have Proof they lived.
Dont throw any bashing remarks, or think anything is silly. I read the bible, but as I said, things just dont add up, especially when the Proof outweighs all else.
Ive always wondered why the Bible just contains itself to the Middle East and not the rest of the World, when I read it, its as if no other races, or cultures exist, but you have the Mayans and so many other cultures around the world that the Bible doesnt even mention, and it appears that these people lived thousands of years before Adam and Eve, so one can recite Bible scripture all day long, but when you have proof of the existence of other races, well, for me, where do they fit in?, and the time line just doesnt add up.
I know people here dont have the answers, the bible doesnt either, but Im mentioning it to get what others may think on the subject.
Last Edit: Dec 28, 2010 20:25:26 GMT -5 by briankey
Post by Rachael-LA. Spirits on Dec 29, 2010 14:20:40 GMT -5
I didn't realize I threw any bashing remarks and what I find silly is to state you believe something then turn around a contradict and not necessarily on this subject alone. So many people want to spout off about what they believe and stand for and then do or say just the opposite. I don't know all of the answers nor do I claim to know. I don't believe its meant for us to know everything. I understand you wanted other peoples opinion, therefore I submitted mine. I'm sorry that it offended you so, but so be it. You yourself said everyone has the right to believe as they wish. That is what I believe. Regardless of whether you believe as I do or not, you still don't know the answers either. Perhaps one day, if you discover them, you will share them with our board. Thanks for allowing me to express my opinion.
Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 29, 2010 15:58:08 GMT -5
Everybody has, and is entitled to, opinions. That said, let's look at another word. That one being "proof", the one we have trouble with in the paranormal. (That which is not explainable by the laws of science/physics as we know and understand them at the present time.) "Proof" as it falls in scientific circles is that which is verifiable and reproducable under laboratory/controlled conditions. That leaves out a lot. Even in some areas considered as science, such as psychology. There, best we can do is result to probability. In history, we can't even really and credibly assign probability to many events. And as far as evidence, paintings are weak. Painters, unfortunately, often fall into what is called "schools", where they paint in similar styles. If something "works" under certain conditions, others copy it and apply it to similar paintings, even if sparingly. After all, opening the flood gates ruins a good idea, is it becomes "common". Paintings can't begin to approach photography for credibility and "proof". Even the "Lady in Brown", famous in its nature, fails to "prove" apparitions.
We have no idea what Da Vinci saw. We don't even really know what the person standing next to us sees. We can only listen to their account, and weigh it within our own contexts of experiences. Light reflects off objects, into the eye, and, before being "interpreted" by the brain into what we perceive as an image, this signal travels through the frontal lobes. Therein lies our past experiences, prejudices, and more. EVERYTHING we think we see gets "translated" before the final image is processed. Therefore, we don't even know exactly what we think we see is in fact what is there. We never "see" the object, just the reflected light, and only that portion in the visible spectrum, whch inturn, gets filtered. We don't really "know" what we see. It's good enough to get us by, and has enabled mankind to make great progress.
We have proofs, probabilities, and that which we call faith. Civilization comes about by natural human instinct to move things up the ladder, into that "proof" area. It's what we are and what we do. Civilization's greatest mistakes can arise from rushing things up the ladder into the "proven" column, when they don't belong there. Maybe they will, in the future, and maybe they will be "proven" that they definitely DON'T belong there. This is where philosophy and debate come in handy. Analyzing and thinking. Without those, we NEVER will get there. We can't "learn". Without healthy debate, we can only ignore, and finally forget.
Your last post Rachael came off arrogant in a way, so, please dont do that, Yes I may contradict myself in my wording, but its just how I word things.
Im simply saying what I believe, and what I believe is, there is way too much evidence that goes contrary to the bible, Im not gonna mention them here, but as far as the proofs, those who want to know, have capable fingers and can look it up for themselves.
No, doubt it will be anytime soon that anything on this world will be solved, whether it was meant for us to investigate or not, it could be a Mystery that God placed here to amuse us.
Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 29, 2010 20:35:54 GMT -5
I would like to add to this, again. First, even though this is a public post, I would like to more reduce the scope of the "debate" to the three of us that have been involved. First of all, I believe and correct me if I am wrong, all three parties have professed to a Christian belief. Therefore, we believe in God and His Word. If so, me must believe there are angels. Again, if so, we must concede that some of these rebelled and were cast down. Satan is known, in the Christian realm, to take the works of God, and to pervert them. Thus, for the Church, a satanic church, etc. Satan professes, in the Christian realm, to be an enemy of God and all He stands for, and to actively thwart God's efforts to save His children. Therefore, if a man say unto me, "There IS NO evidence here on earth contrary to the Bible and God's Word", I would have to ask unto that man not "Is God dead?", but "Is satan dead?"
Evil, as well as beauty, may be in the eye of the beholder. I do not pretend to attempt to classify all as either good or evil, though there may be obvious examples as to both. Therefore, I do not herein pass judgment on unnamed evidence contrary to the Bible, or any other herein. I simply say that some may be valid, and some may be coincidental, and some may be totally erroneous, in general. And what is valid, coincidental, or invalid, for one, may be the contrary for the other individual.
It is still the nature of man to seek the truth. Probably always will be. It is up to each of us to decide what truth/which truth, how to seek it, and to determine at what point we feel that we have found a truth, or at least part of it.
P.S. When I said limit the scope, I was referring to points in the "argument" as previously discussed. This in no way should disincline others to post opinions or add to this discussion. Please do.
I know that we three do have a religious background, but what I was trying to point out is, with all the different cultures of people that lived for thousands of years, and left behind evidence of how Technically advanced they were for their time, the bible doesnt cover this, nor does it cover the time frame before the Book of Genesis concerning the Dinosaur era, Genesis says nothing about these Creatures, yet they did exist, Im not saying at all the Bible is incorrect, merely it just seems to cover a small period of time in Earths History Yes, God did create the Heavens and the Earth, but, There were still Dinosaurs. Prehistoric man existed before the Biblical era it seems.
It seems there is a massive amount of missing time, and I think it occures before the Book of Genesis was written. Nobody knows for sure, that I fully understand, but it doesnt keep a person from wondering about it all, and there isnt anything illegal that I know of in the Bible about questioning, or even pondering what Ive mentioned here.
Your right, there were Angels who rebelled against God, and he tossed them out, maybe it was planned that way , that if Mankind on Earth had Demons to Tempt him/her, not to make it easy to get into the Kingdom of Heaven, that we have to fight for it. We know there is good and evil, makes it sound like there has a to be a balance, that if there were only good, it would be too easy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Just a thought.
Post by Rachael-LA. Spirits on Dec 30, 2010 13:35:06 GMT -5
Sorry, Brian. I don't mean to sound arrogant. It's just how I word things.
Also, John, I am well aware of "proof" that exists contrary to what the Bible states. However, that is where I have to make my decision. Do I doubt what I believe in or do I doubt man's "proof"? It's all a question of faith. Thank you for your post. They are always enlightening and a joy to read. Really...
Oh, by the way, I'm not saying we shouldn't be curious. That's a natural part of being human. I'm just stating what I believe in and I don't and won't jump back and forth indecisively. I'm not saying anyone else has to believe as I do, by any means. Free will is also a part of being human. Enjoy!
I have visited many other Paranormal boards, and asked the same questions as I did here, gave my input, like you, I believe what I want as a free man, but its suprising that once I posted the same issues, people were upset, became angry, arrogant, when one talks about UFO's and the Bible, like all the other so called Preachers I asked these questions to, dodged, or became angry, and arrogant at those questions, not sure why, but I think as you have mentioned to me, and as many Preachers also said, We shouldnt dwell on the subject, thats always the excuses. And thats the way they word things, I see thru that.
Although the Bible is full of Paranormal activity concerning Ghosts, Ive asked Preachers how they felt about that subject, it amazes me how many will go out of there way to avoid the subject all together, but being the bible, it should be a topic of conversation in the church, but why run from it?.
My job on an Ambulance with daily downtime gives me time to think deep over alot of things. Although I have alot of Paranormal activity that happens to me, at my Louisiana Camp, and the Haunted Civil War house I spend nights in, I try to bring posts to this board that seems deader than the two Patients I had last month, try to bring some Life to it.. Just hope it is appreciated.
Last Edit: Dec 30, 2010 19:30:18 GMT -5 by briankey
Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 30, 2010 21:55:11 GMT -5
Rachael, wasn't trying to correct or "argue" proof, as scientufic vs. Faith. It's why I broke out proof, probability, and faith. There, I didn't capitalize faith, to also include such faith as "The sun will rise tomorrow". It has every day, so far, and collectively. Individually, we will all experience a final sunset, as incarnate, and eventually and collectively, the planet will see a final sunset when the sun goes nova. BUT, we all have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow for us, individually and collectively.
I have no idea why many pastoral leaders shy from the subject of the paranormal, especially survival of the human spirit. I suspect that many don't feel they have an answer, beyond what they may personally believe, that they feel that they can effectively communicate and/or defend in an intelligent conversation. Most will take the fallback position that 100% of all communicatons, allegedly from spirits, are from demonic spirits, attempting to "hook" the recipient into obsession on spirit communications, or to allow these communications to influence their life, in a major way. Neither will I deny this can't happen. I would never tell anyone other than if that seems to be happening, walk away, don't look back, and never return to those circumstances. But, there have been too many communications, even "one-shot deals", that have been nothing short of beneficial to the recipient, and not even remotely harmful or evil in the nature of the communication. However, in the majority of cases I personally see, where it's probable paranormal activity is evident, it's pretty neutral. I think it would be a real stretch of the imagination, not to mention the credibility of the observer, to argue that a demonic spirit is trying to get someone obsessed with watching television (as if the recipient couldn't do that without help) to the extent they ignore their job, their family, and life in general (obsession syndrome) by simply turning on a television in the den about 2:00 A.M. a few times. Or similar by moving items around in the kitchen, or opening/closing cabinet doors.
All questions are welcomed, and I do wish more members of the public would participate, with questions or the sharing of the events that happen. Many are a little unsure about "sharing", and many actually do wonder "Was I or am I crazy?" I hear that from many people who finally gather up the courage to call for help, answers, or opinions as to what is happening, that which disturbs the sanctity of our homes, our personal lives, and the lives of our family members. It's amazing the number of people who will sell a home and move rather than ask for help or an opinion. I see that on a regular basis. Sadly, many will move out, then ask us to check out the empty while it's For Sale.
We may not, nor may any other, always have The Answer(s). There are NO experts in this field. There are, however, those with experience, years of research and study, compassion, dedication, a caring attitude, and guaranteed confidentiality if so desired. Doing something is better than doing nothing, or fleeing in fear, plus we might just be able to have The Answer, or enough of it. At least, worst case, we can be professional, even if no answers are forthcoming or found. And we WILL try again and again if necessay or requested.
The public is always welcome to share events or ask questions. If confidentiality is desired, my personal e-mail is firstname.lastname@example.org. I check that daily, and will try to address any genuine issues sent there, or try to make referrals, with the client's permission, to those who might be geographically better suited to make on location assessments in the La. area. I will do my best to answer questions about the paranormal events in any area. All clients are always appreciated.
Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 30, 2010 22:36:41 GMT -5
BRIANKEY POSTED "I have visited many other Paranormal boards, and asked the same questions as I did here, gave my input, like you, I believe what I want as a free man, but its suprising that once I posted the same issues, people were upset, became angry, arrogant, when one talks about UFO's and the Bible,".
There is, unfortunately, too much rivalry, animosity, divisiveness, etc. in the over-all paranormal community, therefore I don't ask "Who?". Really doesn't matter. The key words are "angry, upset, arrogant". The simple answer is "unnecessary, uncalled for, and (unfortunately), unprofessional". And the simple solution is "Why go back?". OR, perhaps, to ask "Would I invite these people into my home?".
Most boards are "one-shot deals". Here, if you want to tell a joke, there is a place. If it's an adult joke, one for that, too. Ufo's? Category for that, also. Want to check out a particular category, click on it. If you actually find something there that relates to that category, you clicked on it. If it's totally inappropriate, let us know. We'll move it or delete it. Don't see what you feel should be a category?? Suggest it. It will be considered.
Like what you read in a particular post? Tell its author. Disagree? Post your reasons and a logical debate on the issue.