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Demons?
Feb 5, 2011 11:48:19 GMT -5
Post by paranormalis50 on Feb 5, 2011 11:48:19 GMT -5
I don't think any one would take up the position or argument that we do not have a sinful world, nor did/will I. I simply pointed out "individual responsibility/accountability". The closest thing we have to sin being forced upon us is being born imperfect into a sinful world. Thereafter, it's a matter of personal choices, and, sin we will, as we are all imperfect. This does not constitute a license to sin, as we do have choice, but simply points out that we will make the wrong choices eventually and inevitably, or one of us, however inadvertent, would be "perfect". The only fatal sin, is that of rejection of salvation. (Though some add suicide to this list.) And again, that doesn't mean a general license, as we should attempt to make our lives as close to that standard of "perfection" as we can.
In individual choice, I reaize you pointed a specific Event X, and took the position that it is sunful by its nature. I am not taking the position that this one Event X is also the Second Fatal Sin. Neither was the point argued that it is not the Second Fatal Sin. The point was made from the general statement "there is alot of Satanic influence", therefore, there is much to be done, across the board. In order to accomplish something, we must take a starting position. It was this that I addressed. Event Y/X/, or Z is opened for discussion, then:
Individual P may state: 1. This Event is a sin. 2. This Event is not a sin OR, the following could apply, in life, as opposed to formal debate 3. Individual P could not be aware that Event has happened in the past, is happening in the present, or may happen in the future. (total non-awareness)
THEN, if 1 or 2: we may postulate: A. I will participate in the Event, regardless of 1 or 2 B. I will not participate in the Event, regardless of 1 or 2 OR C. Invididual P, through non-awareness, may/may not participate in the Event, by being in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time, and simply carrying on with his life/thoughts, as thoughts themselves may be right or wrong/sinful or not sinful.
It is here that we have failed in either attempts at education, or improper analysis leading to nonawareness this if R and S happen, then Event T is imminent.
All the data in the world is useless if we fail to look at it, THEN, Make a Proper Analysis. There are three items that are sealed in lead containers, never to be opened except in case of dire emergencies. These are: 1. Uranium 2. Plutonium and 3. Texts on Philosophy.
Personally, I believe that all analysts shoud be exposed to basic philosophy. NOT on a specific subject, as first, but philosophy as a process, then the specific subject of religion, science, paranormal, government, botany, etc., may be BETTER understood. Again, all the data in the world is useless without proper analysis. This also helps us not to confuse "facts", with that which is simply "data". And proper analysis allows the party making the argument of science, etc. to support the argument/debate when called upon to do so.
This, again, is presented as a general statement, not as a specific reply to a specific debate, as we seem to have agreed that there is much work to be done in an otherwise imperfect world. I propose that to solve problems, we need a process, which has existed for many centuries, but is now too often overlooked, or reagrded with disfavor, or misunderstanding of what it actually constitutes.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Feb 4, 2011 7:52:33 GMT -5
I don't think any one would argue the point that there is satanic influence in our world. Despite what we call cultures, countries, regions, cities ,neighborhoods, when all is boiled down, it comes to individuals, even if we do choose to live collectively. The indivudual is the one who has to make choices. Not one of us is perfect, we all make choices that are not the best ones, whether from temptations, or true ingnorance (lacking knowledge). Whatever name we choose to assign to an entity, angel or otherwise, the ultimate choice of our actions, whether good or bad, lies with the Fred, Joe, Alice, or Ann that made that choice. All we can do is attempt to consciously try to make the best, informed choice, and if we do that individually ,then that collective-actions part will take care of itself.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Jan 20, 2011 10:28:45 GMT -5
I might want to throw "prophecy", and "miraculous healing" into that mix, also. AND admit, that's not a complete list. TOTALLY PERSONAL OPINION: I try not to exclude any area of science, the study of the survival of the human consciousness, or religion, when looking at the big picture. And, just about anything we "find", does contribute to the big picture. In the "paranormal", we are stuck in the middle, good and "bad". We catch if from both sides, critics and skeptics, but our positive data, as a science based team who believes the spirit survives bodily death (religious stance), tends to pull BOTH sides together, whether they credit that or not. Science took a bold step toward bringing the sides together, however unintentional, several years ago. Science has been traditionally "materialistic". Then, along came quantum physics. At the sub-atomic level, everything exists in a state of "potential", or "probability". Then, the "observer" observes, intends, measures, etc., and then the "vector state" subsequently collapses, creating an observable reality, from potential. Things get "created" ? And "man" can do it??? Hmmmm....This creation from thought or intent sounds a lot like the alleged "origin of the universe", science or religion, a sudden coming into existence. And "pure materialism" died a quiet death. Things begin to move together, maybe not acknowledged in huge, public announcements, but there have been a lot of "quiet conversations" that have taken place on both sides. Everything that "traditional science", members of paranormal research, or traditional religion, claims is pretty much right in the middle on Kansas, Toto, compared to what has been found in quantum physics/mechanics. So, are we all that far apart?? Are we that far apart, in reality? IF we can define "reality" after quantum mechanics. Or maybe, we are far apart, in rhetoric? IF that's the case, are we supposed to "raise the white flag", and give up, instead of pulling on both sides? And many will attack, believing we are here to "tear down walls", and "bury their cities". Nothing could be further from the truth. I simply attempt to gather data scientifically and impartially. If enough data is gathered, the "truth" will eventually come out, whatever that truth may be. When the truth comes out and is known, only two possibilities can then exist. The walls will be proven to be unassailable, or they will fall under their own weight. No one will have to tear anything down.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Jan 19, 2011 14:09:16 GMT -5
I think you pretty well summed this one up in the first sentence, children may see things that we don't as adults, adults having been subjected to a lifetime of "cultural filtering". And, I don't think anyone would argue that point that, whether adult or child, there are those that are regarded as more "gifted" than others.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Jan 19, 2011 14:06:00 GMT -5
I don't doubt the power of God over demonic forces, which power is represented by the Cross. However, Faith, is a requirement. Belief. Iif any individual renounces their Faith, they may be subject to demonic forces. We are all allowed to be tempted, even Christ. If we accept the temptation, we are constructively denouncing that which we had formerly professed to believe in. Then, in theory, oppression, obsession, and possession could follow. It's the personal position of the individual, rather than the landscape, that's the ultimate deterrent. A car won't run very far w/o gas.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Jan 19, 2011 13:52:55 GMT -5
Okay. It's just both personal and "open discussion" opinion. Not intended to be any type of official opinion. And, by the time you re-read, I may add a litttle more "open discussion" opinion, depending on available time today/tonight. These floods have been working me day and night. Worked Sunday, when I originally planned to do some data/EVP/video analysis. I did some paperwork on the floods last night, and didn't even get to this board until around midnight, after only 2 hours sleep the previous night. So, I may have rambled a little on the above post.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Jan 19, 2011 0:00:13 GMT -5
Okay, I think I'll jump into this one and see if I can't get myself in trouble with all concerned. We have the term "perspective", but I'm not sure we are seeing the perspective of "perspective". The other term is paranormal. This is usually defined as that which lies outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation, or that indicates phenomena that are understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure". That sounds like a technical definition. Okay, so is there another kind?? Yes, besides a technical definition, we often get in trouble with "common usage". It's how we "normally" think of a term. Who's "we"?? What's "normal"??
So, is religion "paranormal"? I don't think it could not be, under the technical term. But, under common usage, is it paranormal? Perspective, of the who, what, when ,where, and why.
Common usage. Paranormal. Study of the survival of the human spirit beyond bodily death. One branch in the tree. Depending on which branch of the tree you stand on, the most important one??? How about PK?? Objects supposedly moved by the power of the human mind. Science? Paranormal? Parapsychology? Witchcraft? Might depend on whether you are standing on the front steps of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, or in Salem, Massachusetts. And certainly in what year. And, if a few years ago (couple of hundred), on the main street of Salem, don't "flick your Bic", or more might get burned than you are counting on.
Now, let's get deeper. God. We don't have all the answers. Guidelines, but not all the answers. Let's take the hopeful, generally accepted stance, "God is alive". Then, by the survivalist theory, since God is alive, not having passed away, there is no "paranormal/deceased", common usage, spirit of the dead. Any manifestation would be that of a Living Being. Holy Spirit. Doesn't fit the common usage definition of a "spirit". From a parapsychology standpoint, it might be closer, though not exact, to the manifestation of "out-of-body" experience, though we know not the form of the Body.
Much of the divination of spirits was done for purpose of enslavement of that spirit. Or, gain of "illicit" knowledge. Generally today, we don't believe spirits of the deceased gain knowledge suddenly at death. Not the kind that was sought after, turning lead to gold, building flying machines, ultimate weapons of war. No wonder that was prohibited. These searches often resulted in "fixations", "obsessions". These can be not healthy, regardless of the object fixated upon. And, to the best of my knowledge, no one hits the lottery regularly by spirit divination.
To get a little deeper, God gave us His Word. Quite a while back. People wrote it down. We still have many versions, different, but all God's Word. How might have we, in our vanity and personal piety, have adulterated The Word. It's been revised many times, by people we accept as inspired, and infallible. These are the same people we accepted as inspired and infallible, when Galileo was locked up for having the audacity to say the earth circled around the sun, when the Pope said it didn't. Confused? Definitely read what Guidelines we have, then, afterward, try Personal Communications for answers. Go to the Source. Cut out the middleman.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Jan 6, 2011 19:17:44 GMT -5
Hi, Shelly. Glad you chimed in, and look forward to your taking part in discussions.
John / La. Spirits
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Post by paranormalis50 on Jan 4, 2011 12:03:45 GMT -5
Hi, Jenn. My additional comment?? 2:20 AM ?? You are dedicated to work so late. (Early?) And yes, the debates have raged for 100's of years. And the interesting additional part is the part of those who believed they were possessed, but weren't. ( ?, by whose authority/judgment, not possessed?) The symptoms are almost the same, very close, if not identical. The easiest "correct" cure? Exorcism. The subconscious mind believes it is the cure. Therefore, the subconscious mind clears the symptoms once the "cure" is applied. This exorcism of the non-possessed, again by whose opinion, has been controversial, by argument the non-possessed should not be exorcised. The Anglicans seem to be the more enlightened about just doing the rite.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 31, 2010 20:49:15 GMT -5
Nobody really knows exactly what EVP's, per se, are. It's even possible they are not sound as we know it, but get "imprinted". In the "older" days, many cautious investigators listened to cassette tapes, immediately after opening them from the factory package, to make sure they were "fresh" and didn't accidentally get recorded, somehow. A few of these contained EVP, without ever having been in a recorder. They were known as EVP, since, sometimes, they contained the same EVP as from another cassette in a recorder, with the unopened package in the same room or nearby. Sometimes the EVP on the fresh cassette contained answers to questions asked in the room, or comments made therein, the cassette never having been in a recorder.
EVP voices have come through phones, TV's, radios, and other electronic items. With updates in electronics, the "voices" seem to be able to keep up, including sending anomalous text messages. Been involved in several of those myself. Love to hear if anyone has had any of these experiences.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 31, 2010 9:41:46 GMT -5
Send it to me. Always enjoy looking. W/O looking, we can't learn new things, have new experiences.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 30, 2010 22:36:41 GMT -5
BRIANKEY POSTED "I have visited many other Paranormal boards, and asked the same questions as I did here, gave my input, like you, I believe what I want as a free man, but its suprising that once I posted the same issues, people were upset, became angry, arrogant, when one talks about UFO's and the Bible,".
There is, unfortunately, too much rivalry, animosity, divisiveness, etc. in the over-all paranormal community, therefore I don't ask "Who?". Really doesn't matter. The key words are "angry, upset, arrogant". The simple answer is "unnecessary, uncalled for, and (unfortunately), unprofessional". And the simple solution is "Why go back?". OR, perhaps, to ask "Would I invite these people into my home?".
Most boards are "one-shot deals". Here, if you want to tell a joke, there is a place. If it's an adult joke, one for that, too. Ufo's? Category for that, also. Want to check out a particular category, click on it. If you actually find something there that relates to that category, you clicked on it. If it's totally inappropriate, let us know. We'll move it or delete it. Don't see what you feel should be a category?? Suggest it. It will be considered.
Like what you read in a particular post? Tell its author. Disagree? Post your reasons and a logical debate on the issue.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 30, 2010 21:55:11 GMT -5
Rachael, wasn't trying to correct or "argue" proof, as scientufic vs. Faith. It's why I broke out proof, probability, and faith. There, I didn't capitalize faith, to also include such faith as "The sun will rise tomorrow". It has every day, so far, and collectively. Individually, we will all experience a final sunset, as incarnate, and eventually and collectively, the planet will see a final sunset when the sun goes nova. BUT, we all have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow for us, individually and collectively.
I have no idea why many pastoral leaders shy from the subject of the paranormal, especially survival of the human spirit. I suspect that many don't feel they have an answer, beyond what they may personally believe, that they feel that they can effectively communicate and/or defend in an intelligent conversation. Most will take the fallback position that 100% of all communicatons, allegedly from spirits, are from demonic spirits, attempting to "hook" the recipient into obsession on spirit communications, or to allow these communications to influence their life, in a major way. Neither will I deny this can't happen. I would never tell anyone other than if that seems to be happening, walk away, don't look back, and never return to those circumstances. But, there have been too many communications, even "one-shot deals", that have been nothing short of beneficial to the recipient, and not even remotely harmful or evil in the nature of the communication. However, in the majority of cases I personally see, where it's probable paranormal activity is evident, it's pretty neutral. I think it would be a real stretch of the imagination, not to mention the credibility of the observer, to argue that a demonic spirit is trying to get someone obsessed with watching television (as if the recipient couldn't do that without help) to the extent they ignore their job, their family, and life in general (obsession syndrome) by simply turning on a television in the den about 2:00 A.M. a few times. Or similar by moving items around in the kitchen, or opening/closing cabinet doors.
All questions are welcomed, and I do wish more members of the public would participate, with questions or the sharing of the events that happen. Many are a little unsure about "sharing", and many actually do wonder "Was I or am I crazy?" I hear that from many people who finally gather up the courage to call for help, answers, or opinions as to what is happening, that which disturbs the sanctity of our homes, our personal lives, and the lives of our family members. It's amazing the number of people who will sell a home and move rather than ask for help or an opinion. I see that on a regular basis. Sadly, many will move out, then ask us to check out the empty while it's For Sale.
We may not, nor may any other, always have The Answer(s). There are NO experts in this field. There are, however, those with experience, years of research and study, compassion, dedication, a caring attitude, and guaranteed confidentiality if so desired. Doing something is better than doing nothing, or fleeing in fear, plus we might just be able to have The Answer, or enough of it. At least, worst case, we can be professional, even if no answers are forthcoming or found. And we WILL try again and again if necessay or requested.
The public is always welcome to share events or ask questions. If confidentiality is desired, my personal e-mail is paranormalis@aol.com. I check that daily, and will try to address any genuine issues sent there, or try to make referrals, with the client's permission, to those who might be geographically better suited to make on location assessments in the La. area. I will do my best to answer questions about the paranormal events in any area. All clients are always appreciated.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 29, 2010 20:35:54 GMT -5
I would like to add to this, again. First, even though this is a public post, I would like to more reduce the scope of the "debate" to the three of us that have been involved. First of all, I believe and correct me if I am wrong, all three parties have professed to a Christian belief. Therefore, we believe in God and His Word. If so, me must believe there are angels. Again, if so, we must concede that some of these rebelled and were cast down. Satan is known, in the Christian realm, to take the works of God, and to pervert them. Thus, for the Church, a satanic church, etc. Satan professes, in the Christian realm, to be an enemy of God and all He stands for, and to actively thwart God's efforts to save His children. Therefore, if a man say unto me, "There IS NO evidence here on earth contrary to the Bible and God's Word", I would have to ask unto that man not "Is God dead?", but "Is satan dead?"
Evil, as well as beauty, may be in the eye of the beholder. I do not pretend to attempt to classify all as either good or evil, though there may be obvious examples as to both. Therefore, I do not herein pass judgment on unnamed evidence contrary to the Bible, or any other herein. I simply say that some may be valid, and some may be coincidental, and some may be totally erroneous, in general. And what is valid, coincidental, or invalid, for one, may be the contrary for the other individual.
It is still the nature of man to seek the truth. Probably always will be. It is up to each of us to decide what truth/which truth, how to seek it, and to determine at what point we feel that we have found a truth, or at least part of it.
P.S. When I said limit the scope, I was referring to points in the "argument" as previously discussed. This in no way should disincline others to post opinions or add to this discussion. Please do.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 29, 2010 15:58:08 GMT -5
Everybody has, and is entitled to, opinions. That said, let's look at another word. That one being "proof", the one we have trouble with in the paranormal. (That which is not explainable by the laws of science/physics as we know and understand them at the present time.) "Proof" as it falls in scientific circles is that which is verifiable and reproducable under laboratory/controlled conditions. That leaves out a lot. Even in some areas considered as science, such as psychology. There, best we can do is result to probability. In history, we can't even really and credibly assign probability to many events. And as far as evidence, paintings are weak. Painters, unfortunately, often fall into what is called "schools", where they paint in similar styles. If something "works" under certain conditions, others copy it and apply it to similar paintings, even if sparingly. After all, opening the flood gates ruins a good idea, is it becomes "common". Paintings can't begin to approach photography for credibility and "proof". Even the "Lady in Brown", famous in its nature, fails to "prove" apparitions.
We have no idea what Da Vinci saw. We don't even really know what the person standing next to us sees. We can only listen to their account, and weigh it within our own contexts of experiences. Light reflects off objects, into the eye, and, before being "interpreted" by the brain into what we perceive as an image, this signal travels through the frontal lobes. Therein lies our past experiences, prejudices, and more. EVERYTHING we think we see gets "translated" before the final image is processed. Therefore, we don't even know exactly what we think we see is in fact what is there. We never "see" the object, just the reflected light, and only that portion in the visible spectrum, whch inturn, gets filtered. We don't really "know" what we see. It's good enough to get us by, and has enabled mankind to make great progress.
We have proofs, probabilities, and that which we call faith. Civilization comes about by natural human instinct to move things up the ladder, into that "proof" area. It's what we are and what we do. Civilization's greatest mistakes can arise from rushing things up the ladder into the "proven" column, when they don't belong there. Maybe they will, in the future, and maybe they will be "proven" that they definitely DON'T belong there. This is where philosophy and debate come in handy. Analyzing and thinking. Without those, we NEVER will get there. We can't "learn". Without healthy debate, we can only ignore, and finally forget.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 27, 2010 16:13:51 GMT -5
Hi, Rachael. From the standpoint of just "pure logic", if God created everything, then all life forms would be part of "everything", and, therefore, God would be aware they exist and the reason(s) of the original creation thereof. And as fr as the"'repeating", that's OK. It makes me think I might actually know something every now and then.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 25, 2010 23:06:57 GMT -5
There are always exceptions to just about everything, but the generally recognized steps in possession are: 1. oppression 2. obsession, then 3. possession. And generally, it's a gradual process, with the victim "accepting" what's happening. However, ''accepting", when it's more "inviting" may speed up the process. Possession doesn't imply 100% control. The possessing entity (entities) may indeed dislike anything to do with the church, or Christ, but the possessed person may be able to still make some choices, and fighting the de-possesion/exorcism battle, especially when it involves the Solemn Rites, is better on Holy Ground. It may depend on the victim, the priest, or circumstances. Reference the cases of the Anglican priest Christopher Neil-Smith, some exorcisms peformed over the phone. Also, keep in mind in some of these cases, possessions may vary by degree.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 7, 2010 10:45:43 GMT -5
Making the sign of the cross is pretty much an accepted method of both blessing and protection. There are many accepted variations. Example, some sign using three fingers, representing the Trinity, while other prescribe "open hand", representing the five wounds of Christ.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 6, 2010 12:03:10 GMT -5
There are not any real hard and fast answers to "the paranormal", although we are free to try. If it is genuine paranormal activity, generated by a spirit, discarnate, that it's probably going to happen whether or not prayers are said. The spirit, incarnate or discarnate, would, in theory, be generally subject to free will. We could argue the spirit is aware you did not say prayers, and thought to remind you, but that would be as speculative as any other answer. We could also argue that the subconscious mind felt guilty, and rebelled against the conscious mind. And neither touches upon dream vs reality-as-we-perceive it. Or, coincidence. Lots going on here.
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Post by paranormalis50 on Dec 6, 2010 11:50:30 GMT -5
Okay, there are about 3 questions wrapped in here. 1. Contact/Impact There would have to be impact to many areas. Contact with an off-world civilization could not help but make an impact. The only comment I would add persoonally it that it would not be the first time that someone has claimed to be a direct messenger of God, or God. I don't think that's a new message, or, within established hierarchy, credible, to the extent of major upheaval. 2. Connection/ God-Aliens. If God created the entire universe, and not just Earth, then there is a connection by definition. God created either everything, or we have to modify that belief that God created everything but certain Aliens and THEIR civilization/worlds). 3. Aliens allowed to watch. Since we believe in free will, the choice between good/evil, etc., why would aliens, exercising free will, not be allowed to watch? or, exercising free will, either make or refuse to make, contact?
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